			    TRAVELLER Digest 443

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Various... by Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
  2) Re: Starship design commission... by "David J. Golden" <goldendj@whip.com>
  3) Looking for Info by Scott and Vivian Nolan <nolan@DGS.dgsys.com>
  4) Zho vs Regency: Profitable & practical by Ted7@world.std.com (Mitchell K Schwartz)
  5) Pax Regencia-Class Diplomatic Cruiser by Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
  6) couple of questions by Joni M Virolainen <jonimv@evitech.fi>
  7) Re: [T441] Vincennes to TL-H? by jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
  8) RE: Various  by "'Emperor' Charles Pratt" <capratt@u.washington.edu>
  9) Re: Low TL production at High TL. by "Bruce Johnson" <JOHNSON@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu>
 10) Re: Ship Competition by Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@itlabs.umn.edu>
 11) Re: economies by Simon.Harding@vuw.ac.nz
 12) Re: RSB Cost by Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
 13) Diplomatic Packet by Wesley.Esser@hd62.haledorr.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 08:46:04 -0700
From: Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Various...
Message-ID: <07944110@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

Responding to Mark H. Clark:

>>I think it had some valid points - I am clearly one of those "collector" 
guys who loves Traveller for the history - but I am as offended as others 
have been by the attitude that "GDW Knows Best" and that we should stop 
complaining about the lack of information about alien homeworlds and stats. 
 Frankly, I liked that stuff, not because I ran adventures there, but 
because it gave me a feel for what the culture was like so I could run NPCs 
better.<<

Precisely.  Having all those sector stats for Aslan, Vargr, Vilani, 
Solomani and whatever other realm of space was not so much necessary for 
visiting the actual worlds as it was to establish the culture.  A good 
perusal of UWPs gives a ref or player a pretty good inkling about what kind 
of culture he's dealing with.  Just contrast the Solomani Rim with the 
Spinward Marches and you'll see vast differences.  I think the argument 
that Trav players felt like they were being tugged from one side of the 
galaxy to the other is rather weak.  No one's _making_ you go to those 
places.  But you have the option to go there if you wish.


Responding to Bri:

>>Am I the only one wondering why the Regency dosen't let Vincennes<sp> go 
to TL-17? Think of the *incredible* power a few special antimatter cruisers 
could have -vs- normal fusion powerd ones.
You could have 50t ships that have twin 750mj laser turrets on them.<<

Well, they do hint that Vincennes is an "imminent" TL-17 world.  I've been 
conducting a campaign out of Vincennes for awhile now and I've found that 
you can establish some intrigue by having players try to make industrial 
contacts that can finagle them samples of TL-17 hardware.  I've got one guy 
who wants desperately to own a prototype TL-17 FGMP.  I can't make _that_ 
easy to get without upsetting the campaign balance, but I will give him a 
rather difficult opportunity to get it.

My point is, I think they've allowed enough leeway with the "imminent" 
statement to allow individual referees to go ahead and introduce TL-17 
stuff.  Just remember that nowhere else but Vincennes will have the ability 
to spare or repair those antimatter drives!


Responding to Steve Bonneville:

 >>Another designer for the K'kree!  I guess I'm not the only one that
likes making these weird designs....

According to the old K'kree book, tank crews are trained like fighter
crews.  They'll have a reasonably high level of Enclosure skill which
represents training to cope with tight spaces.  With typical K'kree
herd gregariousness, they'll probably be a *very* tight outfit, too.<<

I just reacquired CT Alien Module 2:  K'Kree, so I'll read up on Enclosure 
and incorporate it.  Good suggestion.

Yes, I like incorporating weird things in my campaigns, too.  Actually, in 
my Northammon RICE paper, the whole reason I included a K'Kree refugee camp 
was so I could use them in an upcoming campaign.  In my Regency Merc 
campaign, the players' platoon is going to be contracted to help the 
disenfranchised K'Kree fight against SuSAG corporate troops, who are 
encroaching on their "reservation."

I've always thought the K'Kree were the most difficult race to incorporate 
into a campaign due to their unique behavior and attitude towards 
carnivores.  This presented a challenge to me as a referee which I could 
not refuse.  In order to even communicate with their K'Kree patrons, the 
mercs are going to have to give up meat for awhile.  To cleanse their 
systems before initial contract talks, I'm going to invent a special drug 
that'll clean their pipes of non-vegetative matter.  I envision about two 
days of extreme platoon-wide nausea. <g>

>>K'kree "Accomodations" 
  672 kL; 48 tons; 0.012 MW; MCr 1.<<

Is this value _per K'Kree_?  Or is double-occupancy an option?  I always 
envisioned large herd elements using more or less communal staterooms of 
great size.  Of course, 672 kl ain't small!

>>Clear domes would be a Bad Thing on a tank.  Can you say "visible
spectrum laser fire"?  :) Something high-tech might be worked out,
but it sounds like more trouble than it's worth.<<

In retrospect, it wasn't a very good idea.  I think I'm going to go with 
several suggestions from various TML people to use holographs and olfactory 
stimulation equipment instead.

--Chris

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:06:06 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@whip.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Starship design commission...
Message-ID: <199510091606.AA12166@ns-1.csn.net>

At 07:25 pm 10/4/95 -0400, you wrote:
>
>If someone has any spare time on their hands, and would like to help out 
>someone who isnt graced with owning FF&S, would said person be interested 
>in designing a ship for a primarily diplomatic role (i.e. _fast_, but not 
>too heavily armed) with a crew compliment of between 35 and 60 and a 
>pricetag around 250 MCr.   The ship should employ the highest possible 
>technology, and be of the best possible construction (again i.e. if that 
>means the ship has to be smaller to come in at around 250 MCr, so be 
>it).   I see a lot of vehicles posted to this list so I assume that there 
>are a lot of hobbyist ship designers out there.   If you have any 
>question feel free to contact me at this email address.   Thanks in advance.

        Unfortunately, I don't have the time on my hands right now, being in
the middle of a military move with training en route, but I would like to
request copies of the designs (both worksheets and summaries) for posting on
my Traveller Web page, if you designers don't mind. The URL is
"http://www2.csn.net/~goldendj/traveller/Traveller.htm"

        Thanks!
 ___________________________________________________________________
  Dave Golden                              PGP Public Key available
  goldendj@whip.com        http://www2.csn.net/~goldendj/index.html

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 12:18:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott and Vivian Nolan <nolan@DGS.dgsys.com>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Looking for Info
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.951009121403.18271G@DGS>


I've recently had my interest in Traveller reawakened.  What are the best 
available sources for broad-spectrum information on the old (CT & MT) 
Imperium?  Especially subsector and system names, data, etc.   Also the 
sort of basic data one should know before attempting a RICE paper.

Also...

How can I get all extant RICE papers?  And what does RICE stand for?

Thanks, 

Scott

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:41:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ted7@world.std.com (Mitchell K Schwartz)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM (Traveller:TNE mailing list)
Subject: Zho vs Regency: Profitable & practical
Message-ID: <199510091841.AA05349@world.std.com>

TML 436: Jim Kelleher said:
>There are some good reasions for the reluctance for the absorbance of
>the Regancy.
>1) a Military take over even if successful would entail now dealing with
>a Lot A WHOLE LOT of very uncoperative worlds and their peoples, most of
>whom would fight to practically the last Sophant!

Completely unnecessary.  You forget that in 1130, there are less than a dozen
worlds with TL13; a major Aslan incursion, and a sudden need to redeploy the
Fleet against Corridor (vs Virus).  Break a few of these, an the cement 
holding
the Regency together collapses.  The remaining worlds have neither the
industrial capacity nor thr population to be a serious threat.  Wait say 
forty
years and then send in traders.

The best scenario is a combined attack from Chronor timed to an outbreak of
Virus after the Fleet begins to deploy away from Corridor in about 1135.  The
Zho go defensive (they already have an operating anti-Virus blockade, but 
they
did not have to redeploy their fleet) and wait for the Virus to work on 
the Regency
main industrial/technology centers.  Maybe go in later just to make sure the
"evil dozen" worlds are silenced.  Then go away for forty-fifty years.

Hmm. Considering the number of targets and the importance of removing them
(not to mention the rsources of an empire) rocks do not seem like a bad 
idea...

They can return to see most Virus infected equipment broken-down, and 
"rescue"
the human population, who can then be educated in Zho schools in order to
rebuild their own independent (client) worlds.  Broken up, they are not 
much of a
threat to the Zho....

>2) The cost in money and to the econimy would be incredible.

Not necessarily. See above.
Consider the alternative: an aggressive society that will outgrow them 
and will have
a taste for conquering.  That is easily known from several of Norris's 
statements
about keeping the Flame until it can be spread...  This is a simple "your 
money or
your life proposition" - pay now or not live to spend what you save.

I don't have the Regency Book - and I don't plan to buy it.

					Ted7


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 12:35:08 -0700
From: Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Pax Regencia-Class Diplomatic Cruiser
Message-ID: <079799c0@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

Okay, here's my entrant into Charles Pratt's diplomat ship sweepstakes.  
Ol' Griffen Shipyards is hopeful since the, er, economy here could use a 
jumpstart.  This was a lot of fun.  I may even use the bugger in my own 
campaign!



Pax Regencia-Class Diplomatic Cruiser

GENERAL DATA
Displacement:  600 tons     Hull Armor:  101 
Length:  37.5 meters        Volume:  8,400 m3
Price:  MCr265.702          Target Size:  S
Configuration:  Disc/SL     Tech Level:  14
Mass (Loaded/Empty):  5863.39/4737.05 tonnes

ENGINEERING DATA
Power Plant:  1370 MW Fusion Power Plant (98 MW/hit), 1 year 
duration
Jump Performance:  4 (2100 m3 fuel)
G-Rating:  4G (300 MW/G), Contra-Grav Lifters (60 MW) 
G-Turns:  66 (122 using jump fuel), 37.5 m3 each 
Maint:  85

ELECTRONICS
Computer:  3 x TL-14 Mod Std Computers (0.5 MW each)
Commo:  300,000km radio (10 hexes; 10 MW), 1000AU maser (infinite; 0.6 MW) 
Avionics:  TL-10 Flight Avionics
Sensors:  Passive EMS Fixed Array 60,000km (2 hexes; 0.04 MW), 
Active EMS 300,000km (10 hexes; 15 MW)
ECM/ECCM:  None
Controls:  Bridge with 10xbridge workstation plus 12 other 
workstations

ARMAMENT
Offensive:  2xTL-14 300-Mj laser barbettes (Loc:  10, 11; Arcs:  
All; 8.3 MW ea.; 1 crew ea.), 2xTL-14 150-Mj laser turrets (Loc:  7; Arcs: 
All; Loc:  15; Arcs:  2,3,4,5; 4.2 MW ea.; 1 crew ea.)

Master Fire Directors:  1xTL-14 Beam MFD (5 Diff Mod; 10 hexes; 
0.06 MW; 1 crew), 1xTL-14 Beam MFD (5 Diff Mod; 2 hexes; 0.024 MW; 1 crew)

                       Short       Medium      Long       Extreme
300-Mj Laser Barbette  10:1/14-43  20:1/14-43  40:1/8-26  80:1/4-13
150-Mj Laser Turret    2:1/10-31   4: 1/10-31  8: 1/10-31 16: 1/10-31

ACCOMMODATIONS
Life Support:  Extended (1.68 MW), Grav Compensators (5G; 42 MW) 

Crew:  32 (11xEngineering, 2xElectronics, 2xManeuver, 6xGunnery, 
2xMaintenance, 2xSmall Craft Flight Crew, 4xCommand, 2xSteward, 1xMedical).

Crew Accommodations:  16xSmall Stateroom (single/double-occupancy; 
0.0005 MW ea.), 4xLarge Stateroom (single-occupancy; 0.001 MW ea.)

Passenger Accommodations: 8xSmall Stateroom (single-occupancy; 
0.0005 MW ea.)

Cargo:  112.64 m3, one large cargo hatch

Small Craft and Launch Facilities:  10-ton skiff with docking ring 
and launch port

Air Locks:  6

NOTES

The Pax Regencia-Class Diplomatic Cruiser is the premiere recontact 
starship of the Regency.  Designed on Collace/Plankwell (1237 A628943-E) in 
1196, the ship was commissioned for duty in early 1202 when the tides began 
to turn on the wilds recolonization issue.

Pax Regencia ships are well-armed and armored for operation in the wilds.  
In the event the crew encounters Virus, pirates or hostile TEDs, the ship 
is prepared to fend off heavy attacks.  Since the ship's primary purpose is 
diplomatic, some effort was made to conceal its armament.  To this end, the 
turrets and barbettes are located near retractable surface structures so 
that they seem like part of the "natural landscape."  Two separate MFDs are 
supplied, one for use with the longer-range barbettes, and one for use with 
the shorter range turrets.

The four command crew of ship are generally tasked with contact and 
diplomatic liaison duties.  Single-occupation large staterooms have been 
allocated to them to accommodate their personal equipment and to serve as 
makeshift offices.

The ship includes a sophisticated grand conference room (168 m3), complete 
with its own workstation for configuring and displaying elaborate 
holographic presentations.  Two small conference rooms (42 m3 ea.) are used 
for offline meetings and private negotiation between parties.

Pax Regencia-Class starships are named after notable treaties and accords 
from sentient history.

Fuel Scoops, 1.36 hrs. to scoop jump and maneuver fuel.  Fuel purification 
machinery (5.72 MW), 24 hours to refine 4575 m3 (326.79 tons).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area (1D20)     Surface Hits    Internal Explosion      Systems
1               1-5: Ant        1-5: Elec, 6-20: Qtrs   AG-2H   LB-2H
2-3                             1-3: Elec, 4-20: Qtrs   JD-9H   LSR-1H 
4               1-2: AL         Qtrs                    PP-14H  LS-10H
5-6, 8-9, 12-14                 Hold                    CG-2H   MD-2H
7, 15           1-2: LP         1-2: LT, 3-20: Hold     ELS-5H  MFD1-(2h) 
10, 11                          1-3: LB, 4-20: Hold     FPP-6H  MFD2-(1h) 
16              1: CH           Hold                    Hangar-1H           
17-20                           1-15: Eng, 16-20: Hold  SSR-(2h)
                                                        LT-1H
                                                        All others- (1h)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 00:06:20 +0200 (EET)
From: Joni M Virolainen <jonimv@evitech.fi>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: couple of questions
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9510100038.A14353-0100000@evitech.evitech.fi>

1. Do you think that RC has monetary union? I mean do you think RC has 
only one Credit that can be used in all member worlds?

2. What is the range of small sensor suites presented in Vampri Fleets 
source book's robot design sequence? I'd like to know especially the 
range of motion detector and how it works.

Thanks in advance,


"I'll be bag"
-Arnie the Alligator

Joni Virolainen
jonimv@evitech.fi



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 95 17:39:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
To: TRAVELLER@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: [T441] Vincennes to TL-H?
Message-ID: <8B2A423.010005BB95.uuout@execnet.com>


T::> Am I the only one wondering why the Regency dosen't let Vincennes<sp> go
 ::>to TL-17? Think of the *incredible* power a few special antimatter
 ::>cruisers could have -vs- normal fusion powerd ones.
 ::> You could have 50t ships that have twin 750mj laser turrets on them.

 There are legitimate reasons that you might want to hold back on
 TL advances:

 The Regency is still effectively under siege.  In such cases, it
 is important to be able to maintain your ability to produce, and
 to maintain existing production.  In many cases, the ability to
 produce new tech renders it cost-ineffective to continue to
 produce at the lower tech.  Thus, the TL17 planet may stop being
 an effective producer and/or maintainer of TL14 and TL15 equipment
 and ships.  Unless you know that (a) you can immediately replace
 this depot with another planet newly introduced to TL15 or TL16,
 and (b) that you have sufficient capacity for the forseeable
 future, even if this depot becomes effectively unavailable, you
 don't want to lose the depot.

 Even were the Regency not under siege, it might still be
 considered inadvisable to permit a retooling for the higher tech
 level.  When a TL offers significant advantages over the previous
 TL, the potential for some very strong distortion of economic
 activity exists.  At this point in time, the Regency really can't
 afford this - they're still new at the form of government they're
 implementing (the democratic reforms), and they have this little
 refugee problem, which itself causes economic problems.  More
 economic upheaval they don't need.

 I'd expect that after things settle down a bit in the Regency
 (slow down the influx of Zhodani refugees, loosen the quarantine,
 rebuild commerce, settle down in the new form of government, et
 cetera), one could expect to see a policy of building up regional
 hubs to the next tech level pretty much simultaneously, with
 possibly one or two sites being allowed to advance ahead of the
 rest, to provide the knowledge base and expertise to help the
 others.  Figure on seeing Vincennes in that role, but don't expect
 them to be permitted to lead the rest by much.

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
---
  OLXWin 1.00a  Windows: From the people who brought you EDLIN!
                                                                                                                  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:02:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: "'Emperor' Charles Pratt" <capratt@u.washington.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: Various 
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91j.951009160014.48224A-100000@homer05.u.washington.edu>




On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, That Computer Guy wrote:

> In Reply to Your Message of Mon, 09 Oct 1995 11: 06:04 EDT
> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 1995 11:30:32 -0400
> From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>
> 
> : 
> : 
> : 
> : "Storm the Reality Studio. And retake the universe." -- William S. Burroughs
> :         Charles Pratt capratt@u.washington.edu -- when in doubt, sail.
> : 
> : On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, Merrick Burkhardt wrote:
> : 
> : > 
> : > Howdy,
> : > 
> : > Well, I've been making a TL16 Diplomatic Courier (for lack of a better
> : > name).  It'll be done my Monday night I'd say.  How are you other
> : > designers doing?  Mine's a hair over budget :-)
> : > 
> : > It got me thinking.  I did the design as straight FFS, but I also
> : > calulated the CT/MT crew levels (I used the HAIS stuff from gdw-beta,
> : > but didn't require any hardware, I just reduced selected crew areas by
> : > 25% (I figured that traveller computers have *always* been too big, so
> : > they might as well include all the automation functions on the ship)).
> : > 
> : > I didn't know what the diplomatic staff was, so I have 5 diplomatic
> : 
> : There would be basically one lead negotiator and possibly about 3 
> : assistants, a handful of staffers (legal research, etc.), and the rest of 
> : the crew would somehow be related to ship's functions---pilots, 
> : engineers, the usual, plus: very good intelligence gatherers, and about a 
> : platoon worth of very elite troops.
> 
> Ummmm, do you really want a platoon of troops.  I'm pretty sure that
> blows the 40-60 crew requirements!  8)
> 
> I think that it would be much easier if you could give us some "hard"
> numbers on the number of non-ship function staff.  Something like:
> 
>    1 negotiator
>    2 assistants
>    5 legal researchers
>    10 intelligence agents
>    ?? ship's troops
>    etc...
> 
> Just as a note, spys aren't part of a ship's compliment, so should be
> accounted for by yourself.
> 
> Likewise, you may want to give a displacement value.  The only reason I
> ask is because a preliminary design I was working on displaced about
> 1000tons but was a sitting duck if using your weapon limitations.
> 
> : > staterooms (large, single occupancy), and room for 8 staffers doubled in
> : > small staterooms.  I threw in 5 troops as well.
> : > 
> : > I had problems given the desired "crew".  It would be more helpful to
> : > know what the diplomatic staff looks like, actually, because the crew is
> : > predecided by the design.
> : > 
> : > Other stuff:
> : > 
> : > I was playing with TL16 HEPlaR missiles, and decided on one point.
> : > 
> : > I will use armor = 3 on all missiles, and brace HEPlaR ones for
> : > their max gs output (int. structure).  Published missiles have higher
> : > max gs, and their maximum velocity relative to the interstellar medium
> : > (ISM in astro-lingo) can be just as high (with no rule that states "a
> : > missile above such and such a speed is d
> : > 
> : > Oh yeah, what would you call "long legs?"  I was thinking g's, then
> : > thought that big jumps mean faster reaction...
> : 
> : Well, in n-space the ship would have to be able to get out of tight spots 
> : (the natives are restless type stuff) and stay away from trouble, 
> : precipitating a high accel rating, and a high jump rating is a must 
> : because a diplomat  doesnt do much good if he aint where the trouble is.
> 
> As a note.  6G's of accelleration won't help you against an SDB that
> moves just as or almost as fast.  After all, the SDB is better equiped.
> 
> I don't know, maybe it's just me, but when you said lightly armed, for
> some reason I thought of a 2 turret limit or something.  Maybe you can
> shed some light on this for me...
> 
>        --Jerry
> 
> 8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8 
> 8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
> 8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8
> 

I've been ambiguous basically because I don't know anything about ship 
design, or I'd do it myself.   So I guess when it comes down to it, I 
cant give you hard answers, because I don't know them.  Use your best 
judgement and your imagination.   I'm hoping that some really diverse 
ships are made, so anyone who cares can use any of the designs, including 
myself.   Hope that helps.  

------------------------------

Date:          Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:29:38 MST7
From: "Bruce Johnson" <JOHNSON@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Low TL production at High TL.
Message-ID: <7C9C69331E@tonic.pharm.Arizona.EDU>

Merrick Burkhardt says:


>This is an interesting point, but I think it is pretty complicated.
>Take for example a flintlock rifle.  A flintlock that *looks* (and
>basically works like) like a flintlock is cheap to make at our TL, but
>if it is made the old fashioned way it is *very* expensive (around
>$10,000 from a master gunsmith--BTW, the old fashioned way means that
>the barrel is hammered into a hollow cylinder, not milled from stock)
>
>But on the other hand the "cheap" version is no cheaper than a bolt
>action rifle (or an autoloader for that matter). 

	Well, this is actually something I know about, and handily 
illustrates a couple of key concepts:

1) A flintlock, even though it is lower tech level than bolt action
rifles, (themselves 'relics'; bolt action rifles are TL6 ?), is not
really less complicated.  Indeed, one of the main effects of raising
the tech level is lowering the operational complexity.  Modern
flintlocks can be made at TL 4, and they'll work perfectly well, but
they're expensive due to all the hand work and complex
crafting..they are created as hobby items, not main line production
items. This is why Rolexes are expensive and cheap digital watches 
are , well, cheap (and, if you believe Ford Prefect, one of the 
harbringers of the end of civilization.)

2) The economy of scale is a large factor here...far more bolt
actions are made than flintlocks; if flintlocks were made on that 
scale, they'd be cheap.

3) Demand.  This will ALWAYS dictate (in a free economy) what is
produced to a large extent.  It is more than quite conceivable, that
producing large quantities of TL 12 spacecraft would be economically
feasable, even for a TL 17 facility, if there are a lot of TL12
starship maintenence facilities out there. This would definitely be
something that the Regency, at least, would definitely be interested
in if they're doing any bootstrapping...make ships that the
remaining starports in the wilds can handle.

4) Need.  As Merrick pointed out, some things don't need to be at 
high tech levels...What do I need a TL 15 hammer for? (Of course if 
I'm a Pentag^H^H^H^H Regency Naval Procurer, I could find ways of 
justifying it ;-)





Bruce Johnson
Information Technology/College of Pharmacy
The University of Arizona
johnson@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu 


As if this place HAD any opinions...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:43:46 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@itlabs.umn.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Ship Competition
Message-ID: <199510100043.TAA04070@natasha.itlabs.umn.edu>


Comments on the "diplomatic ship" competition:

"C. Pratt" <capratt@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>Basically, its two requisites are that 1) it be able to outrun anything 
>it can't out fight (remember the about 250 MCr budget and the 40-60 
>person crew) 2) it needs to be built for practically any usage (e.g. 
>medical ship, scout, troop ship, etc.)   

An observation: this ship, given the budget, will probably not have 
high jump capability.

The jump drive is one of the most expensive components of any starship,
and with the MCr 250 budget, assuming that it is all spent on the jump
drive, a 833-1/3 kL system can be purchased.  This is only enough for:
 jump number     6     5     4     3     2     1
 ship displ.   850  1000  1190  1490  1980  2975   (displacement tons)
 
I'd guess that a ship along the lines that is being requested will be
at most 1000 to 1500 displacement tons and will compromise on jump drive.
I built a 2000-ton command yacht with similar specs, commissioned by a 
wealthy player-character; it has a crew of 40 to 60, 14 passengers and
owner-aboard, jump-6 (but 2G), some small craft, and a number of other 
interesting features.  The cost is in the mid MCr 900s, but it's fast, 
luxurious, spacious, and the player could pay GSbAG/Terra the price.  
Three-fifths of that price went to the massive jump drive.

Actually, judging by your comments about "a platoon of troops", what 
you want is something like a Broadsword-class cruiser...I didn't design 
it, but can I submit it?  :)  It's only MCr 315.  Reduce it to one squad
and put diplomats and staff in the staterooms freed up.  If eight laser
turrets are too many, replace some with escape pods or whatever.  It's
jump-3, 2G, TL15, and even in the right crew range.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonn0015@tc.umn.edu>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:00:20 +1300
From: Simon.Harding@vuw.ac.nz
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: economies
Message-ID: <199510100100.OAA28053@rata.vuw.ac.nz>


>
>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:34:49 -0400
>From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
>To: traveller@MPGN.COM
>Subject: RE: GNP Per Capita by TL 
>Message-ID: <199510062034.QAA06937@chopin.udel.edu>
>
>In Reply to Your Message of Fri, 06 Oct 1995 15: 13:37 EDT
>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 16:34:48 -0400
>From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>
>
>: I am curious as to wether anyone has done any cmputations (using the World
>: Tamers Handbook) as to what the GNP/capita is for each TL.  One would
>: assume that a credit means much less to a citizen of TL17 Vincennes than to
>: an individual in a TL8 world... but just how much is the difference?
>: 
>: One repercussion of this would be for high TL worlds having a great number
>: of  starships due to finiancial reasons.  One need only look at the
>: _relative_ cost of a space shuttle in our own society.  Also, are the any
>: varient rules for high TL societies making lower TL products at reduced
>: cost.  One woulde think that a TL15 Class A starport could produce TL12 far
>: traders much cheaper than the aprox. 45MCr that these lil' beasties run
>: for...
>
>Here's where I like being an econ major, I can actually do something
>useful with it once in a while!  8)
>
>Quite simply, a TL15 world has no need to create lower TL starships. 
>There is enough demand on them to create TL15 ships.  So, as a firm,
>they will want to maximize their profits by producing what is being
>demanded of them.

What makes you think that because a world has a TL rating of 15 there will
be no demand for ships of less than TL15 or indeed <TL15 shipyards on that
world. Due to retooling and capital replacement lags it is more likely that
a world rated as TL15 is not able to satisfy all shipyard demands in TL15
yards. In fact some TL14 and 13 yards would continue to operate profitably
for sometime to maintain ships of that vintage and to satisfy the demand not
fulfilled by the limited capacity of TL15 yards. TL15 yards are likely to be
'state of the art' and R&D yards of initially low volume. The high volume
output would still be at TL14. 
The added complication is the structure of the industry. Since it is most
likely that starship construction would involve a large number of
contractors spread across the world each producing components, it is not
necessarily the case that each contracting firm is a 'state of the art'/R&D
firm. One simply can't look at shipyards as adding all the value. They are
the clicking the components together stage. 

>
>Some "earthly" examples.  Automobile factories need to retool to make
>different automobiles.  There might be a significant amount of
>retooling required to use lower TL materials.
>
>When a society advances beyond a given level of production (they start
>to modernize or move into other markets) there are others that are also
>moving ahead (just behind them).  For example, most sneakers are now
>made in Indonesia, whereas before they were made in Korea, and before
>that in Hong Kong.  Both HK and Korea advanced enough technologically
>that it wasn't cost effective for companies to produce the lower tech
>good there anymore.

Sneakers are made completely in the same factory. I think that starships
would differ significantly in that they contain millions of components that
would most likely not be produced all at the same yards or in the same factory.
What is more, the TL rating of a world in no way reflects the wealth of that
world or the wisdom of its distribution. One world may be able to produce
large numbers of TL15 ships but has turned half the world into a wasteland
and gutted its satellites for resources, while another world may be only
capable of TL12 ships while having energy efficient environmentally friendly
facilities of TL15. The Soviet Union may have had a nuclear arsenal but it
also had Chernobyl.

Simon Harding
Administrative Assistant
Graduate Students Office
Victoria University of Wellington

"Do what you can, where you are, with what you have, and don't worry about
the rest"
Teddy Roosevelt.











------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 1995 01:47:57 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: RSB Cost
Message-ID: <48959.22744854@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca>

> My only complaint is about cost.  The sourcebook is only 96 pages, and 
> I paid $20 for it.   (Mark Clark)

I paid $22 Canadian!  (About $15 American.)  I think your hobby store is
gouging you a bit.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 22:59:02 -0400
From: Wesley.Esser@hd62.haledorr.com
To: Rob Miracle <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Diplomatic Packet
Message-ID: <"715*/G=Wesley/S=Esser/OU=hd62/O=hale and dorr/PRMD=haledorr/ADMD=mci/C=US/"@MHS>

-----Multi-Part-Message-Level-1-1-27084
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Here's my attempt at a design for a diplomatic vessel.  I came
in a tad over budget, but I with a volume discount it should fit
in nicely.  Any feedback would be welcome.




-----Multi-Part-Message-Level-1-1-27084
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"







         Cavour Class Armed Packet
         General Data
         Displacement: 400 tons             Hull Armor :35
         Length: 27.5 meters                Volume: 5,600 m^3
         Price: 264.73 MCr.                 Target Size: S
         Configuration: SL Box              Tech Level: 16
         Mass (loaded/empty) 2192/1928

         Engineering Data
         Power Plant: 742 MW Fusion (742 Mw/hit), 6 month duration
         Jump Performance: Jump 5, (336 kl/parsec)
         G-Rating: 3.00G Heplar (250MW/G), CG Lifters (40 MW)
         G-Turns: Heplar=54 (25m^3 each)
         Fuel Tankage 3,065 kl, plus 37 kl for power plant
         Maint: 65

         Electronics:
         Computer: 3xTL-16 Mod St Computer (.6 MW ea.)
         Commo: 1x1,000 km radio (**, 20 MW)
                2x1,000 km laser (**, .6 MW)
                1x300,000 km meson comm (10 hex, 3MW)
         Avionics: TL-10+ Avionics
                   TL-16 Terrain Following Avionics
                   TL-10+ Navigation Aids
         Sensors: EMS Active 480,000 (16 hex, 13 MW)
                  EMS Passive Fixed 120,000 (4 hex, .1MW)
                  EMS Jammer 240,000 (8 hex, 18 MW)
                  EMM Masking (5.6 MW) 
         Controls: Bridge with 9xBridge workstations, 3 other workstation

         Armament:
         Offensive: TL-16 250 Mj Combination Laser/Missile Barbette X2
         (Loc: 2 & 3 14.62 Mw, 1 crew, ROF=100, 3 missiles in launchers)

         250 Mj Laser Barbette  10:1/13-40 20:1/9-28 40:1/4-14 80:1/2-7,
         ROF=100

         Master Fire Directors: 3xTL-16 Missile/Beam MFD (6 Diff Mods; Msl
         10 Hx; .26 MW Ea)

         Accomodations:
         Life support: Extended (.5 MW)
                       G-Comp (1.3 MW)
         Crew: 14 (3xEng, 2xMan, 3xGun, 4xCommand)
         Passengers: 10 High Passengers
                     14 Troops
                     2 Officers

         Crew Accomodations: 5xDouble Occ. Sm. Stateroom (.0005 MW each),
         3xSingle Occ. Sm. Stateroom (.0005 MW each), 1xSingle Occ. Lg
         Stateroom (.001 MW)
         Passenger Accomodations: 8xSm Staterooms (.0005 MW each), 10xLg
         Staterooms (.001 MW each)
         Small Craft and Launch Facilities: None
         Cargo: 140 Kl                   
         Air Locks: 4

         Notes:
         Fuel scoops are fitted, and the Cavour can refine fuel at the rate
         of 50 Kl/hour (sufficient to allow on-demand refining when running
         at 1 G acceleration).

         The Cavour class diplomatic packet is one of the latest of the TL-
         16 ship types coming out of the Vicennes Shipyards, designed
         specifically for the diplomatic challenges of moving into the
         wilds.  With it's jump 5 capability and 3 G acceleration, the
         Cavour can get places quickly both in n-space and real space, a
         must for a diplomatic vessel.  It can carry a diplomatic team of
         10 in luxury (or up to 20 with some crowding) and provides space
         for a security force of 16 (48 using hot bunking). 

         For use in the Wilds, where diplomats cannot rely on their
         government for protection, the Cavour is armed with two state of
         the art combination missile/laser barbettes [See description
         below] and 3 TL-16 master fire directors.  The sensor and comm
         suites are also state of the art: the 480,000 km active EMS and
         240,000 km EMS Jamming ranges compare with many front line
         warships; in addition to the standard long-range radio and laser
         communicators, the Cavour carries a 300,000 km meson communicator,
         allowing secure communication with other similarly equipped ships.
         The Cavour is equipped with an EMM suite.

         Since the Cavour is streamlined for planetary landings, there are
         no standard provisions for small craft.  There is room in the
         cargo bay for a speeder and a grav bike or two (up to 5 T of
         craft), and these are generally added when more extensive ground
         transport capability is needed.

         Damage Tables

         Area         Surface Hit           Internal Explosion
         1            1-15:Ant              Electronics
         2-3          1-2:Barbette          1-6:Barbette
                                            7-11:Electronics
                                            12-20:Qtrs
         4-5          1:Air Lock            Qtrs
         6                                  Qtrs
         7-13                               Hold
         14-15        1-7:EMM               Hold
         16           1-6:Cargo Hatch       Hold
         17                                 Hold
         18-19        1:Air Lock            1-12:Engineering
                                            13-20:Hold
         20                                 Engineering

         Systems
         Meson Comm-2H
         MFD-(2h)
         EMM Contr-1H
         EMM Rad-(5h)
         SR-1H
         SSR-(2h)
         LS-3H
         ELS-1H
         AG-1H
         JD-7H
         PP-1H
         MD-1H
         CG-1H
         FPP-1H
         Barbette-1H
         All others-(1h)

         ****************************************************************

         TL-16 Combination Missile/Laser Barbette
         Standard 6T Barbette Mount

         The tightly integrated combination mount used in the Cavour is a
         compact, powerful and energy efficient weapon system.  The main
         armament is a non grav focused X-ray laser with a short range of
         300,000 km.  To compensate for the drop in damage beyond short
         range, the barbette is also equipped with three missiles, each in
         it's own launcher.  Each barbette also has a TL-16 MFD capable of
         controlling either the laser or up to 6 missiles. [note: on the
         Cavour there are three mfd's - one in each barbette and one on the
         bridge. Standard battle practice is to have a gunner in each
         barbette controlling the laser, and the bridge gunner controlling
         all 6 missiles. In the event of damage to the bridge mfd, either
         barbette mfd can take over]

         TL   MW     Mcr   Mass  Short      Medium    Long      Extreme
         16   15.22  10.29 64.19 10:1/13-40 20:1/9-28 40:1/4-14 80:1/2-7

         Any missile under 7 kl in volume may be used.  The barbettes hold
         3 missiles each, all at ready. Additional missiles must be carried
         as cargo outside of the barbette.
-----Multi-Part-Message-Level-1-1-27084--

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 443
***************************
